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dil

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 10:59am

vegetarianism

Hi people!

This is my first time in this forum! I would like to ask people who steped out of the system

if they are still vegetarians, because I have a feeling that many of them became veggies because

Sw. told them to do so and note because they have strong emphaty toward enimals?

Veritas

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 12:28pm

Meat is a animal that has been murdered by my demand, if I am to consume it. If I am aware of that and do not mind, then I will eat meat. I was vegetarian before I joined Yoga. Sure, many became vegetarians because of Yoga. And if you comprehend the reason for becoming vegetarian, you most likely stay vegetarian.

illusion

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 12:39pm

Hi there!

I think this is an important topic and could be moved to a separate thread if admin agrees?

Personally, I have empathy for the animals, but now strongly believe that not all humans are supposed to be vegetarians.

I will tell a glimpse of my story on this topic. I was still a vegetarian for a short while after leaving yidl and yoga. Then, when I became pregnant, I felt strong urge to eat meat. I could only have a little, as I wasn't used to it in the beginning. On the other hand, I had a lot of milk and dairy, soy and other beans, all kinds of nuts, etc.

When my baby was born he had very bad constant diarrhea within days after birth. We saw several doctors and found out that he had food allergies. He was too small to test, but later it was confirmed that he was allergic to milk, soy, beans, nuts, and some other vegetables. All common allergy-triggering foods that I ate during pregnancy.
He was so allergic that we had to put him on a very expensive amino-acid based hypo-allergenic formula instead of breastfeeding. Nothing else worked. Although I tried to modify my diet, he was allergic to such a large spectrum of foods that all my efforts to bring him back to breast-milk failed. He probably became sensitive to some foods in uterus, the doctor explained.

We had very difficult time introducing foods to him in his first years. First things he could tolerate were all kinds of meat. No allergy to meat, but lots of allergies to vegetarian foods. Without meat, he would not have had enough protein to grow.

He is a 5-year old now, he is doing well and can tolerate more and more foods as he is growing out of his allergies.
However, he is a very strong proof to me that people are not vegetarians. Therefore, I am also not a vegetarian any more. I feel much healthier, I lost some weight when I started eating meat. I do not eat a lot of meat, and I don't eat it every day, but I definitely eat it, and do not feel bad about it at all. I give priority to humans and their health, over animals. I love animals, but strongly believe we are supposed to eat meat (in moderate quantities).

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 1:43pm

I am still vegetarian. But I must admit that I dont know- If I was Illusion maybe I would do the same decision as her, but hard to say.

Elisabeth

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 1:46pm

I started a thread January 2010 on a different forum, it was more specific. I asked the question if Yoga teachers should be Vegetarian, because on that particular forum many people think it's ok to eat meat and teach Yoga. My view? Animals are my friends. I don't eat my friends.
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/sho…arian-5745.html

barnes

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 3:42pm

For me, it's very very interesting what Illusion wrote. Moral layer of the problem is one thing but there are health issues as well. When I got mantra I became vegetarian and I can't start eating meat now just because I left the system. I don't want to kill animals and for many years I was thankful that swAmi inspired me to become vegetarian - that feeling was in me even before I came to yoga but I couldn't imagine that man can survive with such a diet before I met swAmi. Problem is that now, after many years of vegetarian diet, I don't think it is healthy anymore. I have very serious and chronic problems with my digestive system and I can say I am even very lucky to be here now. Of course, I can't be sure that there is any connection with vegetarian diet, but it is quite possible. Who knows. But I tend to think more and more, that we are really supposed to eat meat, as Illusion wrote. Problem is what to choose - to be healthy or to be kind of murder? I don't know... But to those who are still vegetarian - please be careful and try to check if it's really good for you. Don't be so reckless as I was. Diet is really more important that it seems to be.

sid

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 6:09pm

I was vegetarian in Yidl for about ten years, then I started to have serious health problems, and I was told by my homeopathe that my metabolism simply couldnt work without meat. I dont like the idea of killing animals, but I had no choice and started to eat meat again. It took 6 months to recover, now I am OK.
So, it depends on the metabolic type. Some people are lucky because their metabolic system doesnt need meat.
According to universal laws, it is said that some animals agreed being food for humans, so people who cannot do without meat dont have to feel guilty ...

Chava

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 6:44pm

Vegetarianism

My classmate who is disciple introduced me vegetarianism.
It fited like a piece of a puzzle to my wish to avoid all kind of violence.
Actually I think vegetarianism was one of the main reasons why I became a disciple.
I had never problems to be a veggie, I had never had to controle myself. My health condition improved in some aspects.
After five years of being veggie I found out, that I have a thought in my mind, I am something better that non-veggies. I didn´t like this discovery at all, so I ate meat not to be so proud about being veggie. Than or next 15 years I was continuing to be a veggie.
When I quit XXXXX this March I was overthinking vegetarianism oncemore as everything, what has any connection to XXXXX and YIDL.
My conclusion?
I feel well , I have no reason to change it.
What I changed is approach to vegetarianism:
I don´t have to be veggie, I simply don´t eate meat.
I am deciding in each and every situation individually. If someone unconsciously with love prepare meal for me with meat, very likely I will eat it - all depends on circumstances.
I am sure that there can be a situation I will prefere good meat then bad vegetarian meal.
I am sure nobody is a bad human being because of eating meat.
If I find out, I have health problem because of it, I will eat meat without accusations.

Only think I appriciate is that others respect my decision what I want to eate and the same respect I pay to veggies as well as non-veggies.

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Tuesday, December 13th 2011, 9:26pm

The day I took Mantra I started being vegetarian, without thinking about it and with easiness. Other vegetarian people told me that about after one year the difference is to be felt. And so it was. I felt better, stronger, having less fears. After a short time I stopped to explain myself to others, because otherwise I have had to hear long stories about why anybody has to eat meat. Horrible if you are hungry and wants to eat in peace. :crazy:

I never tried to convince anybody to become vegetarian as I had to learn first that eating habit is a religion. So today I'm vegetarian because my doc told me so. That is highly accepted and others must not come out with a meat statement.

Also I learnt that there are people they really need meat. In this case I refer to the American Indian. Before eating they thanked the animal for beeing their food and they believed that the spirit of that honored animal will afterwards still live in them. A very wise view what happens on an energy level. Finally the consciouness is the key to all things, anyway if you eat or don't eat meat.

There is no reason for me to blank my experiences because of being separated from y...l now.

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Wednesday, December 14th 2011, 2:36am

I am happy that this thread has been started. This is something that is on my mind. I have been a vegetarian for the majority of my life and started due to YIDL. I am happy to be one as I would never want to cause another being suffering. I am relatively healthy, however I do not feel strong, I am tired most of the time so I don't have enough energy. Because of this, I have been thinking about being a vegetarian vs. a meat eater. Would I be stronger and have more energy if I started eating meat? Is it possible to find out without having to try meat? The wondering just keeps going.

Elisabeth

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Wednesday, December 14th 2011, 6:48am

Honored Matre, I used to be anemic as a child and teenager, (was forced to eat meat, never wanted it), I also had low blood pressure. Being low in iron can make you tired. Now, as a Vegetarian, my doctors are amazed at the result of my blood tests: (the amount of booze I drink is another story for another day, it's embarrassing)....I've got heaps of iron and heaps of B12. I don't take supplements, but I do eat Sanatarium Vegetarian products, in particular their "hot dogs". Never knew it, but they add iron and B12, so that's where I'm getting it! I'm 47, almost 48, and still get hit on by men much younger than myself. They think I'm about 35! It's a curse. :bang: On the positive, because of that, I can always promote non-violence to animals and being a Vegetarian. I'm living proof. :sun:

mangotree

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Wednesday, December 14th 2011, 1:32pm

becoming vegetarian staying vegetarian

When I was young my family was filled with people who loved to go hunting and fishing, so I was surrounded by meat in all possible forms as a child. One of my earliest memories is of a some chickens being killed. We were taught to use guns at an early age and were always out on a boat fishing somewhere. Simply put - killing animals was normal - but when you killed them you also saw ever bit of what it was about - i will spare you the gory details but certainly we witnessed ever detail of what it meant to have meat on the table. Thankfully I didn't like guns. But I was good at catching fish.

Once I was 17 and out of home i barely ate any meat anymore, had no interest at all in hunting or fishing and spent many years almost but not quite vegetarian. I had quite a few vegetarian friends and it generally felt fairly easy to not eat meat, but I didn't want to be any sort of fanatic really so ate some meat or fish in some family or social situations mostly because it was easier.

Eventually I came in contact with yidl and heard some talks about being vegetarian (not from swAmi) and what struck me most was simply the comparison of two images: one - imagine yourself cutting through the top of a carrot; two - imagine yourself cutting through the throat of an animal. So I imagined both and it was pretty clear to me which i would prefer to cut through. Even still i was not quite over the never eat meat again line... Then my brother called me one day - he was having a hard time with some personal stuff - wanted to talk some things through and suggested we go fishing. So we went fishing. We caught quite a few fish. When you catch fish you feel them struggling against you, actually if you bother to think about it and feel it you are filled with the vibration of their death when you pull them up and watch them die etc etc - will spare you more detail than that. Anyway, we had managed a good conversation whilst waiting for the fish to bite but my brother also sent me home with a pile of fish for the freezer. So afterwards I thought it through, 'felt it through' might be a clearer way to say it and i couldn't eat those fish. This experience of having death on my hands was enough to push me over that line - the never eat meat again line...

So my suggestion to you is that if you are serious about starting to eat meat again, so serious you started to do it already then just go and kill some animals - just so its really clear to you what you are doing - just go and kill whatever it is that you want to eat. Keep whatever you can open whilst you do it - your eyes, your heart, your mind - why not look the animal in the eye. With whatever awareness you can allow at that time think about what's going on for you and for the animal - before, during and after. Then at least you will be honest with yourself about what it is that is happening.

I write this with the understanding that many people who I know and love are completely at ease with killing animals, no problem, part of life. They can do it very honestly and with a complete sense of ease. The question you may want to consider is simply - "Can I do that? - honestly?"

If you want to read some research about numerous nutritional matters then go here for one perspective:
http://nutritionfacts.org

If you are feeling like giving up chai one day (or switching to soy chai) then go here and learn what happens to the baby calves in nearly all of the dairy industry:
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_act…y-calf-cruelty/

illusion

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Wednesday, December 14th 2011, 3:35pm

hidden forms of violence

I was once on a public lecture that sw was giving, and one person (non-devotee) asked him whether Jesus's disciples ate fish. Instead of replying sw asked whether anyone else would like to answer. One (non-devotee) person wanted to give his answer, or better to say, his version of explaining a Bible story. His answer was that when Jesus multiplied fish and bread and gave to the crowd, the fish was actually "pastry shaped like fish", which the Jews called "fish" at that time. Sw just said "thank you", without commenting the answer.

It really puzzled me though. I looked up the Bible and it very clearly says that it was fish. They were fishermen. They lived by the sea. It was completely natural that they ate fish.

Another thing I didn't like about this question/answer was - sw used someone else to give the answer. He found his way out of a potentially difficult question, which I believe he actually did not know the answer.

Anyway, I do believe they ate fish (and probably meat on some occasions). Fish was one of the first "meats" that I started eating.

I believe it is most natural and most healthy to eat what grows (or lives) in the area that you live in. However, not every human organism is the same. Personally, I have a bit lower blood sugar, and have to eat more frequently. When I eat a piece of fish or meat, I can go for hours without feeling hungry or faint. On the other hand, when I eat a vegetarian meal, I crave for snacks and sweets very quickly.

I definitely do not eat meat because of its taste. I eat it because of my health. And it is not because I read about the importance of meat in your diet. It is because I was a vegetarian, and know how it influenced my health. More drastically, I know how it influenced my baby when I was pregnant (my story from the previous post).
On the other hand, I eat sweets because I enjoy their taste. And sweets are bad for two reasons. First is health. Second is over-enjoyment in the food.

Orthodox Christian religion has fasting periods when both meat and dairy are avoided. Overall it includes about half of a year (spread over the year in several fasting periods). During the other regular days, only monks do not eat meat. Regular working people are advised to eat whatever is healthy for them, except during the fasting periods. The only thing that should be avoided as much as possible is over-eating and over-enjoyment in the food.

In any case, good for you if you eat vegetarian and feel good and healthy!
On the other hand, I chose to eat meat because of my health. Sure, I feel sorry for the animals. But, I believe that it would be a sin to give priority to animals over humans.

If you were to kill an animal or kill (or even seriously hurt) a human, would it really be difficult for you to choose?

We have to sort out priorities in our head. Most of us are too brain-washed listening and thinking about non-violence towards animals. What if non-violence toward animals involves violence towards humans. Isn't hurting one's health a violence?

Tony

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Thursday, December 15th 2011, 3:52am

Just my 2 c.

I am still a vegetarian but I am not obsessive about it. For example, I no longer care whether cheese has rennet in it, and I love cakes and icecream and don't care if they have eggs in them. At my age, I am more worried about the fat and sugar. :cute; I really don't like the taste, smell, or even the texture of meat. I don't miss it, I cannot eat it. So I confess, empathy has nothing to do with it. If I liked it, I would probably eat it. I am not going to take moral credits for my natural, inborn distaste for meat. "Many of my best friends eat meat." ;)

However, I do take fish-extracted EPA and DPA (the two long chain omega 3). Of all the different nutrients you may be short of being a vegetarian, I have found these to be the most important. The impact of these two fatty acids on my brain is quite dramatic. I have heard that certain algae contain EPA and DPA too, but frankly I tried, and it didn't work the same. I also got rid of all vegetable oils in my diet, and use only olive oil, coconut oil, and butter.

At home, we mostly cook from scratch, yes, it's very time consuming, but I also drink whey protein shakes every day, and take some mineral supplements. I consider myself reasonably curious and trying to stay informed about nutrition, but I tend to side with evidence-driven medical research over "natural" fantastic solutions. I also think that most of the public confusion and misinformation about nutrition is not driven by deficiencies in science, but purely by politics, by which I mean money. So you need to dig around a bit, and as always, may God bless Google.

Elisabeth

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Thursday, December 15th 2011, 1:07pm

Illusion, I do not value human life above animal life. (well, except for mosquitoes). If I was to get a life threatening disease, I would not want animals to be used to try and save my life.(Medical experiments, etc). No way. I would just rather close my eyes and say good bye to this crazy and cruel world. I do not want other creatures to perish and suffer just because I want to survive. On the other hand, I am also very guilty, because I inherited a 15 year old dog in July, and she is used to getting meat. So I have to buy meat and cook it for her. But this little 15 year old dog will be the last meat eating dog I own. If I ever get another one, I will feed it a Vegetarian diet. It has been done quite successfully before.

Mangotree, after my mum died I spent many holidays on a farm in Austria. I only ever witnessed a killing once, it shook me that much, they never exposed me to it again. I couldn't even pluck the feathers of the chicken. I still remember the cold skin, the funny smell, the bucket of water....I started screaming and crying and ran away. Wasn't cut out for it. Too sensitive.

Coming back to Illusion, I don't want to comment any further, would need to talk to you in person to make sure you are telling the truth. At the moment I can't really believe that a human/child needs meat to survive. It really is not necessary.