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Roman

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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 1:12am

Facts and Lies

I would like to start this open discussion on our upgraded forum with inquiry into one of the main issues which emerged during our discussion on the old forum. You may remember or just browse through and you will find it in many places that the most heated arguments were always about “facts” and “lies”.

Anti swAmi: We have seven testimonies. These were written by direct witnesses of swAmi’s sexual encounters and abuses.

Pro swAmi: Those testimonies are lies written by crazy, misguided, delusional and/or completely unstable and untrustworthy women.

Anti swAmi: Just open your eyes and look. What you will see are countless indications of swAmi’s behavior not being adequate to what his titles stand for. He is not detached, peaceful, humble, egoless, and free of material world. Just look at him.

Pro swAmi: Because you want to destroy him you see certain things that actually show to the real spiritual seeker and disciple how great master he is. It is his “leela” (teaching by showing us our illusions) to show us the dangers on our path and realize these contradictions within ourselves.

… and so on and so on…

What is the real facts verifier? A lie detector, semen sample on t-shirt, walking on the water or mindreading? Or just simple unbiased brain power? You tell me. :nod: (no)

mangotree

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Wednesday, March 28th 2012, 1:02pm

shame and justice

I came across this passage below about shame and justice a
few weeks ago in a book called Living a Life that Matters. I’ve heard the
sentiments below described to me several times by people who feel they were
mistreated in various ways by the orange guru.

"Psychologist Judith Herman, in the magazine The American
Prospect, wrote, ‘What victims most commonly seek is vindication. They want
public acknowledgement that what happened to them was wrong. They want the
burden of shame lifted from their shoulders and placed where it belongs.’

Shame? Why should the victims feel ashamed? The robber, the
rapist, the torturer is the one who has reason to feel ashamed. Over the years,
I have counselled rape victims and incest survivors, and I have always been
puzzled by the feeling of shame I encountered in them. What did they have to be
ashamed of? .... Only recently did I come to understand them. The shame they
felt was the shame of powerlessness, the inability to protect the integrity of
their own bodies.... What these people
all remember most vividly is not the cruelty of their tormentors but their own
feelings of helplessness.

I learned a great truth from them. When we thirst for revenge,
it isn’t really revenge we are after. We are looking to reclaim the sense of
power and dignity that was stolen from us....”


He goes on to relate this to the principle of restorative
justice and comments that the experience of being listened to and taken
seriously by others is what most helped people overcome that feeling of
helplessness.

Elisabeth

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Wednesday, June 20th 2012, 1:11am

I would like to start this open discussion on our upgraded forum with inquiry into one of the main issues which emerged during our discussion on the old forum. You may remember or just browse through and you will find it in many places that the most heated arguments were always about “facts” and “lies”.

Anti swAmi: We have seven testimonies. These were written by direct witnesses of swAmi’s sexual encounters and abuses.

Pro swAmi: Those testimonies are lies written by crazy, misguided, delusional and/or completely unstable and untrustworthy women.

Anti swAmi: Just open your eyes and look. What you will see are countless indications of swAmi’s behavior not being adequate to what his titles stand for. He is not detached, peaceful, humble, egoless, and free of material world. Just look at him.

Pro swAmi: Because you want to destroy him you see certain things that actually show to the real spiritual seeker and disciple how great master he is. It is his “leela” (teaching by showing us our illusions) to show us the dangers on our path and realize these contradictions within ourselves.

… and so on and so on…

What is the real facts verifier? A lie detector, semen sample on t-shirt, walking on the water or mindreading? Or just simple unbiased brain power? You tell me. :nod: (no)
I just found a slight error in testimony 1. I struggled and wasn't sure if I should mention it here, but then I thought, (I actually discussed it with a psychologist first), it's better out in the open. Because, as was pointed out to me, if the Sex Abuse ever makes it to court, Swampy's lawyer would have a field day: Here it is: Audio Testimony- she says it happened 3 times in Jadan. Her letter this year to the Austrian Government's Bundesstelle fuer Sektenfragen, she says it happened twice in Jadan.

Maybe it can be simply explained by her? Maybe it is possible to forget, after all it has been a long time ago? I'm not an expert in this field, wouldn't know if a person can forget, or get the numbers, etc mixed up? It didn't really make me doubt the whole testimony, after all, there are too many women speaking out now, but maybe she can go back listen to her audio statement and give an explanation? Or at least be aware of it, in case it ever goes to court so she will have an answer ready?

falseswamiji

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Wednesday, June 20th 2012, 9:41am

we can check it, but it is quite irrelevant...


...ok, i checked it , I think when she is speaking in audio, she maybe means first ime it happened , that time when she was in india it happened again 2 times, and in the letter she is talking about 2 visits to jadan when it happened not counting intercourses. if you use spellchecker you'll find much more material to pond upon ;)

what I don't get is why do you bother with such details?? if it ever gets to the court , some misunderstandings will be easily explained, your problem is that you are still looking for lies in testimonies, for some intention to cheat , invent etc
as repeated 100 times before , there's no cheating or exaggerations in testimonies, there is actually no need to do so , first it would be stupid thing to do, second it would be dangerous to go out in public with lies and we would not do it to ourselves in the first place, third, swanji himself maid it juicy enough to make a bestseller book or a movie , perfect material for drama, triller, horror or porn movie, if you want.
Though , for active didl cult believers it would still look just like sci-fi or nazi propaganda movie :crazy:

Elisabeth

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Sunday, June 24th 2012, 4:46am

Reputation Points

You know, the old forum was a lot more open. Aggressive and vicious, at times, but more open. Seems like everything here is kind of hidden. I just found that I got 2 bad points from Angela for the above post, and two bad ones from Novisad Calling. Is this a kindergarten in here? Who cares about reputation points, good or bad? I don't. I come here to read or write, not to worry about getting naughty points. OH, naughty Elisabeth, we don't like what you said, bad girl, here are some bad points for you. I'm done with this stupid form, I've had enough. It's dead anyhow. Nothing thrives in a culture of secret chambers, hush hush and browny points. I came in to inform people that Annandale is opening again, check it out on the website if you wish.
Was I really that bad to point out that one of the victims said she got abused twice in Jadan, and a year earlier she said it happened three times in Jadan? How about a simple explanation? But no, that's too much to ask for. Instead I got naughty points. Shame on me.
If I was in her shoes, I wouldn't feel offended, I'd explain myself.
For people who want to give me more "bad reputation" points, yes, go for it, I won't know, 'cause I ain't coming back. Kindergarten stuff doesn't interest me.

mah

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Sunday, June 24th 2012, 9:41am

If I was in her shoes, I wouldn't feel offended, I'd explain myself.
I don't think there is a single visitor to this site who would not acknowledge that in this area you are indeed a rare and precious gem :)

That being said not everyone is as comfortable being so open.