You are not logged in.

Dear visitor, welcome to Beyond Orange. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

PallasAthene

Silver Member

(193)

Posts: 201

Reputation modifier: 6

Level: 32 [?]

Experience: 418,802

Next Level: 453,790

  • Send private message

16

Sunday, November 13th 2011, 7:30pm

"Since 1970 he has been living and working in Europe."

He was 18 years old coming to Europe and in those times you came of full age with 21 years. So he had to change the age in order to become contractually capable. For example to rent a flat and to sign any contract for whatsoever.

Ivan

New User

(13)

Posts: 2

Reputation modifier: 1

Level: 14 [?]

Experience: 4,108

Next Level: 5,517

  • Send private message

17

Sunday, November 13th 2011, 11:50pm

Actually he came in 1972, so he was 20. I don't think that in Austria there was 18-21 difference in 1970-ties. I also heard the story that in that time you couldn't get a passport in India before you are 21, but in India they told me that this is bullcrap, that you could get a passport at any age and that you were considered full grown-op at 18. I also suspect that the idea was only to pretend older.
Once I heard him saying how he used to pray to Mahaprabh to get a grey beard :huh: .
I heard him saying that in 1972 he spent some time in Graz before comming to Vienna and that he worked as house painter there, his guru career started only after meeting that poor lady from Schikanedergasse.
I.P. from Vienna told me that his birthday also isn't for real. When I asked why he changed it, she told me it was because he is afraid that someone might cast some evil spell. Must be some spell which may be done by knowing your exact birthday and horoscope sign?? (wtf) Knowing him this is exactely what he would think, like some yagya will end campain against him. Yea right.

unexde

New User

(11)

Posts: 22

Reputation modifier: 1

Level: 22 [?]

Experience: 45,144

Next Level: 49,025

  • Send private message

18

Tuesday, November 15th 2011, 12:49pm

RE: A few inconsistencies in Lila A.

Speaking about lineage fabrications a few things should be raised again:
1. The age of Mahaprbh.
If he was really born in 1828 then what about his photos where he is clearly young. Even if the photos were taken in his forties they must been from 1860-ties which is impossible due to the quality of the photos (in an extreme remote rural portions of Rajasthan?). They look more like from 1920-ties.
Second, Devpriji died in 1942 (as it is stated on his tomb and on YIDL official web-page), 20 years before Mahaprabh. How the heck was he old when he died concerning that he must have been older than Mahaprabh. Mahaprabh was supposedly 114 years old when his teacher died. If DevP was at least 20 years older he must have had 134 when he died 8| ?!

My guess would be that he died in 1963 his seventies or eighties in most probable scenario.

2. If swAmpy was born in 1945.
He came to live with Old Frog when he was 13, that must be 1958. So why he didn't met Mahaprabh. But that's clear: if he came to live in Nipal when he was 13 and Nipal was opened in 1965, he must have been born in 1952. So why is such a humanitarian divine soul lying about his age ?( ?

3. A serious one:
Old Guru Frog was initiated into saṃnyāsa in 1942, the same year DevP dided. So why the heck he never visited him? Kailas is not that far from Nipal or Khatu where Old Guru was living for years before he was initiated. He could pay a visit, why not? Also why he wasn't with Mahaprabh when he was dying? Or at least at the funereal ceremony? The same goes to Mahaprabh.

Lila A is just a bag of fantasy and dangerous manipulation. I could guess that author had some sense that something is wrong, so he writes that
Mahaprabh was, at least spiritually, at DevP deathbed: he is enlightend so he hasn't have to be with him in person. So why was swAmpy organizing and attending Old Guru's funereal? Why was he with his mother, he could be with them in meditation?
Doesn`t exist any simple explanation for this? - in India exist many calendars, maybe birthdate follow one calendar system and die of an another. And nobody want to correct this mistake, because of 135 is the great number...

Tony

Silver Member

(249)

Posts: 280

Reputation modifier: 6

Level: 34 [?]

Experience: 588,095

Next Level: 677,567

  • Send private message

19

Tuesday, November 15th 2011, 4:54pm

Doesn`t exist any simple explanation for this?
Of course there is a simple explanation :P . The junior members of this "spiritual lineage" are manipulative liars, inventing entire mythologies the better to strip naive Westerners off their hard earned cash and/or underwear.

Posts: 23

Reputation modifier: 1

Level: 22 [?]

Experience: 47,992

Next Level: 49,025

  • Send private message

20

Wednesday, November 16th 2011, 12:57pm

About Lila A. Ivan is right. The timeline shows strong inconsistency. But I would add one logical inconsistency more: Do you understand such crazy thing-one man has been doing such bombastic mirackles (brings people back to life, brings rain on demand in desert area, creates money, won all duels with famous yogis and others VIP, and so on) for at least one hundred years in India. And noone can confirm it, just old XXX said-many people told me about it-and who else can tell us about that "many people"who told him about it, where they are? I think they were just in his fantasy- wow, very interesting point. If it would be true, then whole India spoke about him, like about new Jesus, but no serious report on it. Just unckle of XXX and XXX told about him. Very strange-so many mirackles, even big sadhus were defeated by him and no testimony, no historical source about such a great God..........isn´t it crazy? (no)

LenkaKT

New User

(62)

Posts: 29

Reputation modifier: 5

Level: 23 [?]

Experience: 59,731

Next Level: 62,494

  • Send private message

21

Wednesday, November 16th 2011, 2:47pm

Yes, Sam.
It was always my problem with Lila A. - such a number of miracles and no other evidence of such a big guru...

But... I wanted to believe in it. My explanation was: "OK, I met no other evidence of such a guru, but who I am? I am not a specialist in history or philsophy... maybe there is some evidence. Besides, oldGuru met him and was his student, why he should lie to us? He simply wrote what is his story."

It never come to my mind that there can be a linie of editions and that the text in my edition is not the original story from oldGuru. And that all of this can serve XXX in promotion.


So much I wanted to believe that somebody soooo nice like Mahaprabhu really existed and I can be part of it!
:fool;

Roman

Silver Member

(212)

  • "Roman" started this thread

Posts: 240

Reputation modifier: 5

Level: 33 [?]

Experience: 503,627

Next Level: 555,345

  • Send private message

22

Thursday, November 17th 2011, 12:48am

I was always confused what to tell people who would ask me after I had mentioned that our great grand master Maha...ji lived one hundred and thirty something years:
"Is there any record of that anywhere? Because he would be the longest living person on the Earth ever."
Well, record is only this book, I don't know.
People would look at the book but I could tell that they were not convinced. Me neither.

Over two thousand years ago there was supposedly a man who walked on the water, healed people by touch and did some other things. They are still talking about it today. Maybe swAmi's idea of immortality was to create a new religion which will make everything to look real. He just forgot that it takes thousands and thousands of years. No way in one lifetime. And also, although that man inspired many over centuries, remember how his life went. Not a walk in the garden, not living in palaces and collecting titles. So maybe now swAmi's "New religion project" is getting at least a little bit more real with all those people talking bad about him. Maybe the whole scandal is a part of the divine play! That is what luns & co are trying to tell us and we don't understand! So low spiritually developed people we are, pitifully hanging on some numbers and being concerned with such miniscule things like divine nectar entering somebody's mouth in master's bed. :cute; :cute; :fool;

Posts: 26

Reputation modifier: 5

Level: 23 [?]

Experience: 53,839

Next Level: 62,494

  • Send private message

23

Thursday, November 17th 2011, 2:03am

Doesn`t exist any simple explanation for this? - in India exist many calendars, maybe birthdate follow one calendar system and die of an another. And nobody want to correct this mistake, because of 135 is the great number...
Nope.
This is a result of making "romanticised" versions of the old book. As time went by, each new version brought up more fantasy in addition.

ily

New User

(11)

Posts: 14

Reputation modifier: 1

Level: 20 [?]

Experience: 29,011

Next Level: 29,658

  • Send private message

24

Thursday, November 17th 2011, 9:01am

About Lila A. Ivan is right. The timeline shows strong inconsistency. But I would add one logical inconsistency more: Do you understand such crazy thing-one man has been doing such bombastic mirackles (brings people back to life, brings rain on demand in desert area, creates money, won all duels with famous yogis and others VIP, and so on) for at least one hundred years in India. And noone can confirm it, just old XXX said-many people told me about it-and who else can tell us about that "many people"who told him about it, where they are? I think they were just in his fantasy- wow, very interesting point. If it would be true, then whole India spoke about him, like about new Jesus, but no serious report on it. Just unckle of XXX and XXX told about him. Very strange-so many mirackles, even big sadhus were defeated by him and no testimony, no historical source about such a great God..........isn´t it crazy? (no)
I was told that one guy who was rised from dead by Maha.ji is still alive and can be seen on many satsangs on videos singing bhajans with his unbearable voice (i've never been to India so couldn't check it, ask him) - if someone knows something about that guy please refer.


@NoviSadCalling: Could you be more specific with some exact details?

Chava

Bronze Member

(154)

Posts: 58

Reputation modifier: 6

Level: 26 [?]

Experience: 120,987

Next Level: 125,609

  • Send private message

25

Friday, November 18th 2011, 12:37am

I was told that one guy who was rised from dead by Maha.ji is still alive and can be seen on many satsangs on videos singing bhajans with his unbearable voice (i've never been to India so couldn't check it, ask him) - if someone knows something about that guy please refer.
I remember that on some satsang there was a video and one of the Czech disciples said, that this man on the video have been called back to life by Mxxxji when he was a child. And that during Czech disciple visit in India he spoke very nicely about Mxxxji and Sxxxji. Czech disciple can speak hindi so could understand him.
For me it was like fairytale, I know that indian disciples can speak for an hours if you lend them a microphone :) , but who knows...

Back to Lila amrit
Lila amrit - oh that was always a hard nut for me - even in time when I believe my master 100%
I was never able to read it all in once. Only some part of it here and some part of it there.
Too incredible - I could believe more to fairytales then to Lila.
Too sweet - no problems, just how wonderfull is to be in master-disciple ralationship.
Too narrow - just discribing the end of the journey, not the process.
And finally - I thought I will die of boredom.

But to be honest and not to write just what I didn´t like or even could´t diggest during my time in YIDL, I really enjoyed singing bhajans. I know that my credit in eyes of many of you can be now bellow zero - but I can´t change the truth.
I was really happy during singing bhajans (not prayer and Gurugita).
I even spent a lot of time translating them (not for singing, just the meaning)
And even now when I watch for a while swami TV to get the idea, what is going on there and singing of bhajan was broadcasted, subconsciously I follow it and I started to sing. Some things are really deep beneath my skin, I must admit.
I was actually overthinking why I enjoyed it so much (nor the music, nor texts are something special) I till now I got one one conclusion - for me it was the only thing which we were doing together at least with a drop of emotions.

Roman

Silver Member

(212)

  • "Roman" started this thread

Posts: 240

Reputation modifier: 5

Level: 33 [?]

Experience: 503,627

Next Level: 555,345

  • Send private message

26

Friday, November 18th 2011, 1:04am

That is the problem. If someone knows anything about that guy... Where is the record? In the orange book? It is interesting that the other side of spectrum people question ferociously anything we say, saying we have no real facts, how can we prove it, etc. But then they believe to a statement about miracle that's written in some book (different then us writing on the internet, of course) and supported by that Indian guy saying it (and Chava is exactly right, you know what she means if you had observed Rajastani's villagers around microphone or in front of the camera). Well, I can say that I was rescued from UFO spaceship by five-eyed ninjas and write a book about it. It just boggles me that people so easily discard any possibility that master could be wrong and without any hesitation label all of us liars, crazies and generally bad people, because it's gotta be that way. They will say: "No, we haven't witnessed what you are accusing our swAmi of, therefore it can't be truth." OK then, apply the same standard to walking on the water, drinking acid like tea or people rising from dead.

mangotree

Bronze Member

Posts: 81

Reputation modifier: 4

Level: 28 [?]

Experience: 169,909

Next Level: 195,661

  • Send private message

27

Friday, November 18th 2011, 1:15am

Imagine yourself India with the master and a man stands up and says that Mahap...ji brought him back to life, or gave his sight back when he was blind, or some such story. How many rupees do you think it would have taken to convince the Indian man to stand up and tell a big fat lie to a group of westerners? I reckon about 10 rupees would do it... or maybe he was a bit greedy and asked for 100 rupees, seeing as the master had so many rich western disciples.

And then you would be left to wonder, why should you believe such a nonsense story anyway?
The answer is simple - guru vakya...
guru vakya deletes the right to question.

unexde

New User

(11)

Posts: 22

Reputation modifier: 1

Level: 22 [?]

Experience: 45,144

Next Level: 49,025

  • Send private message

28

Monday, November 21st 2011, 10:44am

Yes, Sam.
It was always my problem with Lila A. - such a number of miracles and no other evidence of such a big guru...


And what about Great Alakh - Google knows about him infos from Y..l only, no any other evidence about this mysterious founder of the lineage. Only a river and mountain hold this name for ages... Maybe that is the proof of his existence :D

unexde

New User

(11)

Posts: 22

Reputation modifier: 1

Level: 22 [?]

Experience: 45,144

Next Level: 49,025

  • Send private message

29

Thursday, November 24th 2011, 5:06pm


And what about Great Alakh -

an iteresting post from SunYaC from old discussion, regarding a Roman`s new thema Was Mahaprabhuji really an Avatar?? too:

http://www.sexabuseyidl.net/discussion/2…use-scandal./p7

maybe doesn`t matter if Alakh was/is real person or not..

falseswamiji

Silver Member

(304)

Posts: 213

Reputation modifier: 8

Level: 32 [?]

Experience: 444,528

Next Level: 453,790

  • Send private message

30

Thursday, November 24th 2011, 10:34pm

you meant THIS link http://www.sexabuseyidl.net/discussion/c…431#Comment_431

great post of sunyac btw :thumbup: though sunyac is a little bit too conservative for my taste ;)

1 user apart from you is browsing this thread:

1 guests