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Roman

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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 3:12am

Lineage of Masters

I have never believed deeply within myself in all miracles presented in Immortal Life Play book but somehow I still went with it. I was never looking for miracles, just experiences. So in a way my opponents are right. I got what I had signed up for. Experiences. Good and bad. But I’ve met a lot of people on the path who had believed in all the miracle stuff (being made to believe by their friends who brought them in or those who were around for a long time) and it was one of the main reasons why they have joined. “He is such a great master, just read the book, what an impressive lineage!” Which book? The one from yesterday or two, five, ten years ago? Please, clarify that. ?(

Watcher

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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 12:43pm

up all night Roman ?

batawe

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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 1:25pm

certainly by some common sense logic we can presume that the narration, like any myth-like structured tale, or historic preservation? entails certain elements that simply by its 'mythological' character drives you to conclusion that this must definitely not be the 100% truth, while all the elements of the book remain absolutely valid and grounded with actual happenings; if it is so, that these stories do hold together their mythological meaning with the exact happenings in the real world, than we are certainly wrong in our assesment, but if our common sense-doubt tells us that all the narration, all the signifiers and story-telling has in itself at least minimum of mythological structure, than we just conclude that especially things or the lines which we read cannot be absolutely true, especially if they are coloured with this impenetrable mystical meanings, inaccessible to us, and left to us only to be believe and accept as (religious) truth;

even the affirmation of the lineage to the very roots of the master-chain, we can see, that it goes back to the nameless/formless cause/source, the point where we can not see nor comprehend nor have any access to, but the sheer element of absence retroactively gives the full meaning to the whole lineage, the nameless and formless Shiva/Phallus, around which every element is structured, "Lingam as the meaning of the meaning itself", presupposing every element that is to be involved in the chain, who can represent the nameless/formless Shiva Lingam, the Universal (meaning of the meaning) coinciding with the contingent bearer of the Shiva-Lingam significance/signifier, embodied in the line of the succesive Masters/Speakers, elaborating the spiritual themes and representing the ?immortal truth' of their immortal forefathers...

what exactly does it benefit us, if someone can raise the dead or float on water?, unless it is just for entertainment and injecting into the submissive subjects the awe and wonder to maintain their fear which overturns into bhakti later...what does it matter to me or anybody else if you can materialize an apple or you can chop off your d--ck and put it back again...I would say, it is pointless and we don't need to be bothered with it...vaya con dios my fren :love: 8o ds...;)

---

just some 'off-connection',, a part of a certain review of a book, just these lines where interesting to me, and I think they hold some sense, as the topic could be widened and we could ask ourselves, for example, how is the world of a schizophrenic constituted, when s/he erects his/hers inner world as the world filled with many beings and worlds etc...what is reality, where is the epistemological measure to pinpoint and differentiate the delusion from reality? When Shankaracharya utters "Brahma satya Jagat Mithya", is it a realization, a self-referential and sentential auto-delusion, or is it just a abstraction, a saying, representing itself without its referent, divinely aphoristic saying, structuring the symbolic world where we as subjects will roots ourselves in the language and its specific meanings which retroactively create worlds for us;

is there anything beyond the sayings and symbolical renderings? and if it is, how is it structured? Definitely not as language I suppose, maybe as some vague and formless substances of primal pleasure indifferentially merging together in the plasmatronic bliss, who knows...they say: go back to the Father, well, we can go back, but, will it be the same Father there for us, will we be the same?; and in reality, to go where? Why the f--ck do we have to presuppose that there is, or was something better before this, to which we should turn our attention and come to rest?

this is the excerpt, though don't be focused on the word magic, just any kind of writing, mythological rendering, magic or not, who cares...:

"Might not the entire of Magic be described as traffic between That Which Is and That Which Is Not; between fact and fiction? If we are to speak of Magic as “The Art”, should we not also speak of Art as Magic? Even XYZ tellingly and rather poignantly describes great artists as superior to great magicians. XYZ also points out the connection that exists between a grimoire and a grammar, between casting spells and spelling; goes so far as to admit, at one point, that the greater part of magical activity lies in simply writing about it. Clearly there is a reason why Hermes and Thoth, the Gods of Magic, should be simultaneously the Gods of Writing."

joyriver

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Thursday, October 27th 2011, 3:22pm

double rules

I once did tell the people at my yxxl class a story on miracles from Lila Amrit on this lineage of masters.... It was forbidden, of course, to tell people stories that were only for insiders (disciples with mantra). But it happened. And all of those people were gone. I never saw them again. So now, I am glad of having done such a "mistake". 8) For all those people had a healthy sense of reality and of what is acceptible. I'm so happy now for this experience! :D

There are double rules in the org. For outsiders, practitioners, one instruction. For the insiders, other instruction. And when you stand in between, you just can not function. it is impossible and confusing. And creates discomfort, and of course gives the impression that you have to be smart enaugh to figure out what was ment to be for real and what was just a play for the masses. And then there were always "smart" people, who could interpret what was said in anyway that was at their or big o's best interrest. Just like they are doing now. :pinch:

But as things become transparent and evident (truth exposed), ordinary people with a healthy common sense just see it. It is plain and simple. :|

Veritas

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Thursday, October 27th 2011, 3:25pm

Typical indicator of a cult: LAYERS!

Roman

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Thursday, October 27th 2011, 11:31pm

There are double rules in the org. For outsiders, practitioners, one instruction. For the insiders, other instruction. And when you stand in between, you just can not function. it is impossible and confusing. And creates discomfort, and of course gives the impression that you have to be smart enaugh to figure out what was ment to be for real and what was just a play for the masses. And then there were always "smart" people, who could interpret what was said in anyway that was at their or big o's best interrest.

In a way, there were so many rules that nobody really knew what they were. Some of the "elders" would explain to you something based on their imaginary understanding of their great master, like "you know, once swAmi told me certain thing would happen and it happened exactly how he predicted" right after you have witnessed swAmi going completely nuts trying to figure out what had happened somewhere in another ashram or telling you to call a disciple who wasn't coming to the ashram anymore "why isn't she coming anymore, what happened to her?" There was no fixed set of rules. Whatever worked for him at the moment it became the rule of the hour (sometimes minute). With this person this one, that person that one. Of course there were rules like feet sticking out towards the altar or him, bhajan books on the floor and few other ones which were enforced all the time. But how about bowing and touching his feet. Didn't we get all kinds of contradictory explanations from storymakers and barmuenzes?

That's the whole point. Make everybody feel like an idiot, inferior, piece of sh...t and then tell them that if they work really hard, making a lot of money for swAmi and satisfying all his wishes (didn't you hear that real bhakta can read guru's mind and knows what his wishes are and serves him without even asking what is needed?) Again, try ever know what he really wants. He himself doesn't know most of the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be buildings built and taken down and rebuilt and so on in TajOMahal and other places.

So the rules there are not even like in kindergarten. There they serve certain purpose and maybe they don't help with independent creative development of all children there but still their outcome is mainly positive. In yidl rules are the whip of insanity being bestowed upon you by your divine superior. To make you feel like this: ?( :bang: (wtf) :fool; :crazy:

(Sorry for smileys overload)

speakup

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Friday, October 28th 2011, 11:07am

Quoted

@Joyriver: I once did tell the people at my yxxl class a story on miracles from Lila Amrit on this lineage of masters.... It was forbidden, of course, to tell people stories that were only for insiders (disciples with mantra). But it happened. And all of those people were gone.
Oh this makes me laugh :laff: I can remember telling my parents some stories and also some other close friends and they gave me 'the look' - eyebrows raised - no doubt thinking "what are you smoking weirdo".

batawe

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Friday, October 28th 2011, 5:57pm

yeah, you said it "Joyriver" and "Roman"...the rules are arbitrary,,they change according to the situations (I 'studied' and analyzed the new age spiritual masta's on you tube, there are trillions of them, and their divinity lies more or less in divine whimsicalness, unfathomable depths for sure; they are so deep, that even deepness cannot fathom their deepness :blush: ),,and you as instructor had to 'find your way', ialready means there is a certain 'detachment' and play in the game, a schism...and this play, a schizmatic process of not knowing really what to do, but acting as if you know, is the master-game,,and from the perspective of the disciple master is always right...and master can do anything s/he wants...form pickles to cars to substance of god, master knows it all...it's powerful pill of power, and appearing to the gaze of others as cool guy, cool master and just da head of the gang, whom all worship and babes are nuts for him...like the frontman of a band,,,he's so cool, so smart and so self-confident etc... :drinks:

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Tuesday, November 1st 2011, 9:47pm

(wtf) - I received an email from the Brisbane Centre, thought I would share the spin with you, note that we are still seeking donations:

What a year 2011 has been!

AT Y... - In July this year T.. D... relocated from the Gold
Coast to Y... Fortitude Valley to revitalize and re-energise the centre.
T...brings with her teaching experience extending many years and a dedication
to the system of Y... which reminds us of the timeless breadth
that Yoga wisdom holds. T... has spent much of her time studying in India and
is happily directing her energy into developing the Brisbane Centre, one of
many large Y... centres around the world.



With an enthusiastic group of volunteers we have been cleaning the centre -
tearing up old lino in the residential quarter to reveal gorgeous wooden floor
boards and other hidden gems!! Clearing the beautiful garden area to make the
centre feel fresh, re-energised, and making it a positive place to renew
oneself.



During October the Centre was also blessed with the visit of S... founder of the ... System on his recent
trip to Australia. Some of our students had the privilege and opportunity
of sharing time with S....i after evening classes in meditation and
prayer. S... then continued his Australian visit at Y... centres on the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and in Melbourne. We
look forward to S... next Australian tour, as he is such an inspirational
teacher of the essence of yoga and meditation in a modern society and a
tireless worker for World Peace.



We take this opportunity to thank all of our students (both existing and new)
who have supported us through the year at Y... Fortitude Valley, and we look
forward to helping you in your personal growth and yoga journey throughout
2012. Our classes, courses and new programs will recommence in 2012.



Y... is a not-for-profit organisation involved in a range of charity
initiatives in health and education. Any donations to keep the centre
operating on a daily basis and to support our charitable activities are much
appreciated.

Ivan

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Sunday, November 13th 2011, 2:47pm

A few inconsistencies in Lila A.

Speaking about lineage fabrications a few things should be raised again:
1. The age of Mahaprbh.
If he was really born in 1828 then what about his photos where he is clearly young. Even if the photos were taken in his forties they must been from 1860-ties which is impossible due to the quality of the photos (in an extreme remote rural portions of Rajasthan?). They look more like from 1920-ties.
Second, Devpriji died in 1942 (as it is stated on his tomb and on YIDL official web-page), 20 years before Mahaprabh. How the heck was he old when he died concerning that he must have been older than Mahaprabh. Mahaprabh was supposedly 114 years old when his teacher died. If DevP was at least 20 years older he must have had 134 when he died 8| ?!

My guess would be that he died in 1963 his seventies or eighties in most probable scenario.

2. If swAmpy was born in 1945.
He came to live with Old Frog when he was 13, that must be 1958. So why he didn't met Mahaprabh. But that's clear: if he came to live in Nipal when he was 13 and Nipal was opened in 1965, he must have been born in 1952. So why is such a humanitarian divine soul lying about his age ?( ?

3. A serious one:
Old Guru Frog was initiated into saṃnyāsa in 1942, the same year DevP dided. So why the heck he never visited him? Kailas is not that far from Nipal or Khatu where Old Guru was living for years before he was initiated. He could pay a visit, why not? Also why he wasn't with Mahaprabh when he was dying? Or at least at the funereal ceremony? The same goes to Mahaprabh.

Lila A is just a bag of fantasy and dangerous manipulation. I could guess that author had some sense that something is wrong, so he writes that
Mahaprabh was, at least spiritually, at DevP deathbed: he is enlightend so he hasn't have to be with him in person. So why was swAmpy organizing and attending Old Guru's funereal? Why was he with his mother, he could be with them in meditation?

Observer

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Sunday, November 13th 2011, 4:43pm

You have right on this one, Ivan. He really was born in 1952.
After system fell apart, I found out that reason for this lie was,just in propose to be taken more seriously in Europe when he came here for the first time.
According to everything, that was fabrication and making a new identity.
Irony is, our guide on the path toward truth was a man whose life is built from lies.

karavan

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Sunday, November 13th 2011, 6:00pm

Observer, I dont understand, why he should lie about being older? Could you explain this? Why new identity???
Is he stil Indian citizen or has Austrian passport and citizenship?

karavan

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Sunday, November 13th 2011, 6:01pm

If someone has seen his passport, it must be the real age there, isnt it so?

Observer

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Sunday, November 13th 2011, 6:32pm

Lot of people know his correct year of birth. And it's 1952.
Of course he is Indian citizen.

And I have already gave you an answer to your question. Read post again.

And it's not new identity like in a movies or something. When you lie about your age of course it's in a propose to create certain image of yourself.

Tony

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Sunday, November 13th 2011, 7:11pm

why he should lie about being older?
Did you see some early videos of him, bone skinny, with nerdy thick rim glasses and shaved head? He looked like a teenager. In fact, he was too young. As Observer says, so that people in the West would take him a bit more seriously they would introduce him as five years older. In the early days, his passport indeed said 1952, my sister, who was born in the same year, was shown it as a "secret" in Virágos-nyereg, cca 1978.

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