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Roman

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Saturday, October 29th 2011, 1:33am

Siddhis/Telepathic Abilities/ESP

Some people believe that swAmi has siddhis (supernatural powers) some don't. This thread is dedicated to discussion about his siddhis and supernatural abilities in general.

Elisabeth

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Saturday, October 29th 2011, 7:12am

Thank you very much, Roman for opening this thread. I do not expect too much traffic here, but I had to ask. I would really like to connect with people who KNOW a 100% that SM's Siddhis, Extra Sensory Perception/ESP, Telepathic Abilities are REAL.

There are a few things that trouble me in relation to SM's Siddhis:

1. How come the people who left here in Australia, and who KNOW about these abilities, choose to be silent about it? A few people come to mind. They have told me they had 100% proof about it, and now they have left Y...L, some post here, but none want to think about what it all means?

2. How come the Czech Swami H..., who now resides in New Zealand is so terribly quiet about it as well?

3. How come nobody wants to analyze/ponder/dissect/ the fact of SM's amazing abilities and his abusive behavior at the same time?

4. I think we need some really smart people to try and understand an advanced Yogi with amazing Siddhis, but who still succumbed to basic desires like food, sex, money and fame.

I just can't make sense out of it. I really can't. I struggle. The Kheper site has helped me last year, in particular the chapter on the Intermediate Zone and abusive Gurus.

The level of SM's consciousness seems completely incompatible with abusive behavior. But, sadly, in my experience I know for sure that he lied to me.

I would love to hear from people who also had experiences of SM's Siddhis. Thank you. Elisabeth

falseswamiji

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Saturday, October 29th 2011, 12:17pm

super powers

1. more power you have it lets your true spirit show more. most of the 'moral virtues' of many people are just a mask supported by their fears. once they are sure they are in control over situations and other people their true spirit shows without need for masking. power lets them be selfish
power always lets you be as selfish as you are, as evil as you are.

that's a simple and obvious fact and it has been that way ever.

2. he has developed some skills . also when he was young he was attractive and exotic for western women specially, and as women in generally love to idealize men pretending to be a saint and a living god made him very attractive, he scored almost whenever he wanted to score so his ego went really high. he must have started to think he is irresistible and that every woman dies to give him a blow job.his understanding of women and of love is very wrong and infantile . he never had respect for women just like most men specially in the east. for him it is all a game of power and pleasure, not a true personal relationship. he thinks that all they want is his little dick because all he wants from them is adoration and their flesh. need to be adored and need for sensual pleasures they go well hand by hand.

illusion

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Saturday, October 29th 2011, 1:12pm

From my experience swAmi has some mind influencing, and some mind reading abilities. However, I do not see that as important.
I have once witnessed a group hypnosis session, organized for fun on a Christmas party of the company I worked for. It was amazing how the hypnotizer controlled three people who went into the hypnotic state of mind that evening. They were riding an imaginary motorbike, dancing with each other, arguing with each other, and believe it or not, falling in love with each other, only because the hypnotizer told them to do so. It lasted about 45 minutes, until the hypnotizer woke them up. They remembered the whole thing and felt slightly embaressed about it when I talked to them later. They also remembered that they felt wonderful during the whole session and would gladly do it again though. It was for real - those people were my colleagues, I worked with them every day and talked with them about that later. Those were not people paid to pretend at the show.
And, was there anything spiritual about the hypnotizer? Nothing at all. He just had those skills.
So, to have some "special skills", some "powers" does not mean you are any more spiritual than any other person. It may even be a trap for your ego to rise.

Talking about the swAmi, I have personally had some experiences with him. However, was it divine? Was I more pure after that? No, I don't think so. Maybe more attached to the swAmi, nothing else.
To me true sprirituality is humbleness, egoless. It has nothing to do with "sidhis" and "powers". And not with the level of meditative state one is able to delve into.
I did not see humbleness in the swAmi, except in his words.

I have been out of yidl for about 8 years now. I was lucky to have left yidl together with my husband at the same time. Being together made the decision and the recovery process much easier. We saw many faults in swAmi, like spending huge amounts of money on pleasure (business class flying only, most expensive hotel only, most expensive cars only etc).
He tells one person one thing, another person another thing. Disciples call it "guru lila". You can give it a name you want, a lie is still a lie!

After leaving, I personally came back to the Christianity, and that completely filled in the hole I would have probably felt otherwise, if I did not have any other faith. So, after leaving I felt I was "normal" again. As if I woke up from a bad dream.

After so many years out of yidl, I was still shocked to find out about all the abuse allegations. I see it as a proof that we were right to leave at that time.

I wish good luck to all the people who still have to recover. It surely helps to have a support group, and I joined this forum wishing to help by sharing my experience.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "illusion" (Oct 29th 2011, 1:54pm) with the following reason: Parts of this post may go into the Support and Recovery area, do not belong here.


illusion

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Saturday, October 29th 2011, 1:37pm

swAmi may have some mind-reading abilites, but they obviously do not always work. If he has them, they are limited, and people should not be scared of them. (example is taken out from the post and may go into the private Support and Recovery area of the forum)
Obviously, swAmi's swamis do not always listen to him, and do not always trust him. Do they have a reason for that, or do you think they are just "not devoted enough"?

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Saturday, October 29th 2011, 4:04pm

the fact is that YiDl became the business, and it's hard to understand how will the avatars and qutub's, mahants and paramadharm swamigals help people, especially if you are a master to hundreds of disciples; those ancient and holy men whom the today's saints have for their own reference probably had only a few disciples and it went well according to the social structure and the special group of renunciates who were the part of society also; mystical schools, groups always existed, and there was always some sort of mainstream icons and unknown vagabond individuals unknown to the world; it's hard to discern who is really who; we have notes, books, sayings etc...

but once you start to go with one school you are fixed, you accept the line or the way of that school and it is pretty much that; you just can not speculate much here; follow the rules, practice and repeat; all monasteries are made that way; if you fit you can stay if not, go...like the term "democracy", which is an empty signifier, but every social reform is a particular and practical element of how to 'fill' this empty signifier with the meaning, of what "democracy really is"; it's like there is always discrepancy between what is the reality, or grounded in factual experience and what we construct as story, or symbolize the circumstances we find ourselves into...there is always this gap, minimal gap, between the real and the process of its symbolization.

similarly, the term "spirituality", is an empty signifier, a master-signifier, around which all possible meanings will try to construct the 'building', of what spirituality really is,,,but the term spirituality "eternally rests on its own" and it can be filled with trillions of meanings, thus we have tons of schools , tons of meanings, interpretations, approaches...but does it mean now that that is nothing which is necessary and everything is just contingent truth, there are millions of truths out there...it's not easy to answer...but the catch is to see how in a sense all the truth sometimes lies in this cross-section between what is necessary and contingent, for example,,,the state law which is 'embodied' in a particular person of a monarch, or a president etc...where the universality of law, the signifier is than filled with a person's function, his symbolic mandate and he begins to represent that signifier, that law...but in reality, we know he is not the monarch nor the king, it's the function which he took upon himself, but these functions create our world; thus we have relationship between teacher and student, though neither is he student nor the other a teacher, but under symbolic or within the symbolic realm, they both 'exist'...

to go back to initial topic, how an master help to hundreds or thousands of disciples?...there is something which is totally weird in ll the traditions, however saintly they are, they look saintly, they appear saintly,,especially if they have a beard or long hair, or both, they speak nicely , smile nicely and when they speak to thousands, they just generalize the stuff and that's also reason that here no deep truths can be discovered, cause nobody has the time nor interest to delve deeper into subjects, cause you have master and all the people that help you top believe around you,,,you just sit and imagine how nice it is to be here, to be welcomed and accepted, to be a part of a larger family, to temporarily forget, how alone you are and how no guarantee you have for nothing, but still, it's nice to love and be loved, like a child in the family that feels accepted,,it's our infantile need to be caressed and feel protected in this big and nasty kusang;)...yeah, kusang is really big, and sometimes just small steps or wrong move can make an avalanche,,,wrong word and everything goes wrong, action takes place and subsequent action which can destroy the normal course of person's life...so, there are obstacles everywhere, and it is also natural that we as people search some sort of meaning and find what is suitable at certain moment to give as some protection and meaning...

anway, if you have a lot of disciples, men, women, children etc...well, it's a lot to manage on your shoulders, but I think there can not be any substantial personal relationship with the mighty Father, and if the saint meets the woman, even the saints know how dangerous it is;)); for example,,look at the monks from Mount Athos; no woman should step there at all, and they know if they invite women and children it will become a circus, so they are not allowed; maybe it's ridiculous but evidently it works for them, not that I am for it, but that's the way they shielded themselves, cause they know that if monk or a saint remains in the woman's presence, saint's mahapapa (the great sinner) might arise from the nether regions;))

maybe all the spiritual people of the world work for salvation, to escape this mortal world, to go and leap unto the Beyond, even beyond the Beyond, somewhere yonder...but still (though they may look poised and they have fathomed the depths of life and are not afraid of death), it is caught into mental constraints, and divisions of what is holy and not etc,,,what are the relics and holy things and what is an holy life and what is not etc...but at least something is right; if they recognized that women might endanger them as 'species', it's better to cut off the 'devil-hand' and continue on your journey to heaven...

today's saints are really universal, they have thousands of disciples, and all will be saved, jesus looks like a smal fish in comparison to them, though even who is jesus we don't know, it was told to us and we believe...it is also said there is a hierarchy of the masters, divine managements and parlaments somehwere in the astral or wherever world,,good,,we like birocracy, but birocracy is always failin so the masters must be in havoc also...and I am definitely not the lover of birocracy and don't like politics per se, together with the main puppet on the top of the board, the monarch or president or whomever, just a puppet appearing like a MAster...the beggar who thinks he is a king is mad, but king who really thinks he is a king is really really mad man;)) :cute; :love:

interesting video to ponder upon, maybe it will take you somewhere yonder or not, don't know,,just check:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxATVCWNQNw&feature=related

Elisabeth

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Sunday, October 30th 2011, 8:14pm

Thank you for sharing that, Illusion! In my own personal experience he knew as much as the silent witness inside of you/the tape recorder that is on 24/7, the one we probably have to view before we walk up the stairs to heaven (or in Gaddafi's case, before we get kicked down and burn..)
Interesting about Swami H. Doesn't prove SM didn't know, though. Could be one of his many games.

I think the people who are still with him, the ones who had the same proof as I have, just don't want to think about it deeply enough. Same goes for the ones who have left and had same proof as me: They don't want to understand it deeply enough, it's all too hard probably, or too painful. How can God give his powers to the power hungry? From my old site: "Does God give the keys to his knowledge to any thief in the night?" :(

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Sunday, October 30th 2011, 8:29pm

24/7 ? Aren't you exagerating ''a little''...?

Let me remind you again that you were very interested and you let your self question very intimate questions the abused women ( with the prosecutors strictness ) but you never explained your experiences with swampy so that anyone could test your experiences too?
Your intimacy is not more valuable or precious than anybody else's.

So in the first place, what makes you claim ''he has 24/7 insight etc? Where do you find proof for that. And do you have 7 international witnesses as we have for the sexual abuses?

Elisabeth

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 1:11am

falseswami, I'm not here to convince anyone.

I am trying to find people who had similar experiences. I know they are there, but they keep silent about it here on the forum. As I told you right from the beginning, people with similar experiences have to help each other, therefore I didn't want to get involved with the girls who claim they've been sexually abused by SM. They had to find each other and help each other. Same principle applies for Weight Watcher: They don't employ people who've never been fat. Another one comes to mind: AA. People with similar experiences or problems finding/helping each other.


I am really not interested at all in what you have to say in relation to Siddhis, because you have not had the same experience. Next time you get annoyed that I haven't explained all about my experiences to do with Siddhis, when you feel the girls have given up so much and explained so much, remember this: "It's easy to describe a sexual experience (apart from their emotions of course), but a lot harder to describe experiences on a different level and make another person understand it.

But anyhow, I am not interested in debating anything, I just wish other people who KNOW about his Siddhis would join in and post here. That's all.

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 2:31am

"I am really not interested at all in what you have to say in relation to Siddhis, because you have not had the same experience. "


so you are not interested in people that have experiences that he doesn't have siddhis?

but this is discussion? i thought this id discussion, sorry..

you just want someone to tell you - o yes he has got them. is that a way to find the truth?
and you are afraid to tell openly why do you feel he has got them, clearly.and you don't expect anyone to proof it since you yourself do not want to explain anything.

hm..

illusion

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 9:24am

Reply to Elisabeth:

" Interesting about Swami H. Doesn't prove SM didn't know, though. Could be one of his many games. "

Believe me, it was not a "game". I was there. It was all "mortal", normal, regular!!! And this is just a small example of the things that he did not know.

I am really sorry for your struggle. You are not the only one struggling and feeling that he knows, understands your thoughts, while on the other hand justifying everything that does not seem rational with the "lila", "the games". It is very common pattern of thinking in yidl. A lot of torturing and confusion for people's minds. The yidl swamis (the ones I've met) feel that way too. My close friends and I felt that way too. It is NOT HEALTHY! It is NOT "GOOD FOR ONE'S SPIRITUALITY" (another common excuse for the "games" = "good for your spiritual development").

The problem is that people in yidl start with the assumption that swAmi knows it all, and cannot make mistakes. He is surely powerful, but does make mistakes! It is like children believing their parents until they grow up enough to start being independent. And it is even more than that, it is a state of "group hypnosis" out of which it is really hard to wake up. Interestingly, I've noticed it is often even harder for women than for men. It seems we are more susceptible to swAmi's influence.

You say: "How can God give his powers to the power hungry? Does God give the keys to his knowledge to any thief in the night?"

There is another assumption here - that this is God's / divine knowledge. Well, there are otherwise ordinary people who have such powers. Those powers can be obtained by practicing so called "black magic" , "ghost calling sessions" , "various meditation techniques" , or just given at birth. This does not necessarily come from God! They are just skills. Or worse than that, have you thought those could be the illusions put before us by the dark side, the dark angels, whatever name you give to the dark side (the opposite of God). The purpose of that is for us to stick to someone or something that is the opposite of God! So, we are in that sense under the illusion of being with God, when we are on the completely wrong path.

Being in a cult is an experience that many people go through (not only yidl). At one period of time, I had thought (was not sure) that swAmi might be Jesus himself. Now I am pretty sure he is not! Would Jesus tell lies? Would he travel first class only? Would he buy the most expensive jeeps? And so on... I was just illusioned.

Jesus had said "Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many" . Unfortunataly, this is what guruism is. And yidl is just a small movement compared to many others.

Veritas

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 10:54am

This subject is very difficult to handle, as there are so many projections and assumptions included. Best way is to stick to the facts and question everything based on believe, religion, culture, education, dogma and so on.

Quoted from "Elisabeth"

...before we walk up the stairs to heaven (or in Gaddafi's case, before we get kicked down and burn..)
What in earth makes you think that Gaddafi would burn in hell now? Just because of the things that have been told about him in the media? What do we really know about him? Don't get me wrong, I am not defending him, but I just want to point out how easily we take any information as fact and jump in conclusions connected to our pattern of thinking. Is there any indicator (based on facts) that would justify to make such an assumption? Not at all, I guess.

Quoted from "Elisabeth"

...How can God give his powers to the power hungry? From my old site: "Does God give the keys to his knowledge to any thief in the night?"
Another classic. What makes us think that "God" (whatever that is or is not) would have some Siddhis to give away as reward to some very devoted people? And as conclusion of that faulty thinking, we assume, that people with powers, that seem to us as unexplainable or "supernatural" are somehow favoured by God. How silly is that? :crazy:

Quoted from "illusion"

Or worse than that, have you thought those could be the illusions put before us by the dark side, the dark angels, whatever name you give to the dark side (the opposite of God). The purpose of that is for us to stick to someone or something that is the opposite of God!

Another one that does not add up. If we assume that "God" exists and he/she/it was "prime-creator" what could possibly be his opposite? We tend to demonize things or behaviour we can not understand or we reject. The concept of demons or Satan just provides those labels.

And about the Siddhi thing, connected to SM: For every hit he landed, he had around 10 failures as well. People inside just don't like to talk about them - or they are not even aware of them, they only praise his success. Just apply the law of statistic, add the expectation factor to it - that will give you a more realistic view of those Siddhis.

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 10:59am

What about that, is that a "Siddhi"?





falseswamiji

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 12:12pm

"How can God give his powers to the power hungry? Does God give the keys to his knowledge to any thief in the night?"

Did god give power to all the serial killers in this world ?
does he give power ( mental and physical ) over a child to every sick adult pedophile so that he can manipulate and abuse a child?and then even kill him if he wants.
did god give power to Adolph Hitler or Stalin to destroy lives of billions of people ?
...
well he obviously did .
So why couldn't he or wouldn't he give some mind reading powers to some psycho maniacs like swampy?
But then again I still doubt that he has 24/7 insights. Even if he had those abilities and if that is what makes you think he is divine you are so wrong . it is not the power that is a sign of spirituality but what do you do with that power and how much love , care and humbleness do you show.

better picture and sound! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCAi_Qq8tis&feature=related

illusion

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Monday, October 31st 2011, 1:48pm

Even if he had those abilities and if that is what makes you think he is divine you are so wrong . It is not the power that is a sign of spirituality but what do you do with that power and how much love , care and humbleness do you show.
Exactly.
Only when I was able to remove the previously mentioned pre-assumptions and irrational excuses for swAmi's behaviour from my head, the lack of his humbleness and true care showed up. And only after a long time passed by I was able to rid myself of fear from "bad karma" and openly talk about it.

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